#i don’t even think i said everything i wanted to about byler but i lost my train of thought somewhere along the way

[cowlovely]

ummmmmmm. ELMAX !!!!!! and jopper. and byler.

OMG so many!! and such different opinions on all oh this is gonna be fun >:)

okay to start off! elmax!! i am very much on the level with you for this one, they kind of fall in this limbo of “friends, but there’s potential for something more there”. i’m so much of a capital L lumax enjoyer that i have no real desire for this to be canon, but as someone who experienced more than one homoerotic besties relationship growing up (as i said on your ribs amv—everyone stream btw) i am very drawn to them. i haven’t personally read any fics with them as a focus, but i would definitely not be opposed! i just don’t tend to seek out the ones that center the teen relationships :)

jopper!! some COMPLICATED feelings on this one, man, even i wasn’t expecting it!

i was fully fully on board for jopper in season one and hopper was probably my absolute favorite character, and then they introduced bobby in s2 and it tripped me up because i LOVED him and his relationship with joyce :( but at the end of the season i was still in for jopper!! and then s3 came and almost entirely ruined my enjoyment of both the ship and hopper’s character as a whole. s4 definitely redeemed them for me, but i definitely was not as excited at them getting together as i would have once been. still think they’re great overall though <3

byler….byler byler byler…..

okay so. even MORE complicated feelings here, probably my most complicated feelings about a st ship and also my most controversial (with my mutuals at least, not the fandom at large)

i’d classify myself as a byler enjoyer, but not so much a byler shipper, if that makes sense. i think the relationship has a really interesting and layered dynamic, and i think mike in particular is a character with a lot of potential that the writers just aren’t really tapping into. i have no real feelings about it going canon—if it does it does (not betting on this in any way though) and if it doesn’t it doesn’t—i’ll be fine either way. i kind of prefer it unrequited though, or requited but unspoken, because i think mike would have to do some serious growth and unpacking to be anywhere near a good boyfriend to will

i’m also simultaneously a straight and gay mike truther (and also occasionally transfem). don’t ask how. this is what i mean by him having untapped potential, there are too many things going on there and none of them are being explored!

[didyoupainthis]

One thing I see on bylertok way too much is people pointing out that even though Will told Mike it’s “not possible” that he’d ever join another party (replace Mike), Mike still went and joined Hellfire after he told Will to grow up and move on from D&D in S3 (which Will ended up doing)

It takes everything in me not to summarize the situation every single damn time I see someone mentioning it as if it’s proof that Mike ‘doesn’t deserve Will’ or something because it’s so frustrating that people just don’t understand anything about Mike and try and cling to any bit of ‘fault’ in his actions to justify why Byler wouldn’t work and why they don’t ship it

Because this whole ordeal had nothing to do with Mike and Will’s friendship, it was bought about in the first place by Mike and El’s ever incompatible relationship

Mike loves D&D, he loves writing, he loves being DM for the Party, he loves being with the Party. He never stopped loving these things, he stopped pursuing his interests because he was so over invested in being ‘normal’, which in his mind means ditching his friends for his girlfriend. El doesn’t like D&D, she doesn’t share Mike’s interests in his favourite things and because of that, Mike dropped all of it in favour of making out with El. Because that’s what you’re supposed to do in a relationship, and so that’s what he did

Of course, none of that is El’s fault either; El is learning the world and will eventually learn what she likes personally when she befriends Max whilst Mike is lost in juggling between what he should like vs. what he actually does like

All that is to say;

Mike dropped D&D because of El

(again, not El’s fault I’m not trying to blame her for anything it just is what it is)

So circling back to the “not possible” moment, I wanna point out that Mike’s insecurity in that moment specifically is Will leaving him emotionally because Will already is physically leaving and Mike blames himself. He’s mentioned himself obviously that he’s afraid of losing Will but he’s also made it clear many times. After their fight, Mike just wants to know that Will would still choose him and Will assures him that he wouldn’t be replacing Mike. Will placed no expectations on Mike when he said this, he just wanted to reassure Mike that they’re okay and that they’ll be okay which is exactly what Mike wanted

After Will and El left, Mike joined Hellfire because he could focus on doing the things he liked again without having to devote himself to being El’s boyfriend. I was happy for Mike to have D&D back when I first watched S4 and I know Will would be happy that Mike is finding himself again. And while we’re on the topic of Mike finding himself, since he’s joined Hellfire he’s started slowly accepting himself and accepting that he doesn’t care anymore if he fits into the standard or not. He doesn’t care about popularity or people liking him. He is growing and he’s been getting his character development

Anyway that’s all I just love analysing Mike it’s so interesting, but in this case I don’t think it even needs to be analysed. Mike isn’t himself around El and that’s got nothing to do with Will— that’s just Milevens relationship dynamic

[henrysglock]

Why do you cry over Will-Only bylers, Mike stans? After everything they said about us? Hmm? You think bylerblr needs them, but we don’t. We don’t. Oh, but I know you’re just upset. I was upset once too. I know what it’s like to love characters who people believe have no depth. To be alone in this fandom.

Like you, I didn’t fit in with the other stans. Something was wrong with me. All the analysts and the writers said I was… “Reaching,” they said. I thought a change of fandom, a fresh start in bylerblr, might just cure me. It was absurd. As if fandom would be any different here.

But then… to my surprise, my new fandom provided a discovery. And a newfound sense of community. I found a nest of Mike fans living inside a vent. Most people dislike Mike fans. No...they detest them. And yet, I found them endlessly fascinating. More than that, I found a great comfort in them. A kinship. Like me, they are devoted creatures. And deeply misunderstood. They are gods of our fandom. The most important of all fans. They analyze and feed on subtext, bringing balance and order to an unstable ecosystem. But the "Mike isn't that deep" world was disrupting this harmony.

You see, Will-Only bylers are a unique type of pest, multiplying and poisoning our fandom, all while enforcing a structure of their own. A deeply unnatural structure. Where others saw appreciation for Will, I saw a straitjacket. Ridiculous, oppressive expectations for byler fans dictated by made-up rules. Seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, decades. Each anti-Mike post a faded, lesser copy of the one before. Wake up, eat, call Mike a depthless 2D character, sleep, ignore all his textual importance and trauma, and die. Everyone is just waiting. Waiting for them all to shut the fuck up. All while performing in a silly, terrible play, day after day. I could not do that. I could not close off my mind and join in the reduction of Mike's character. I could not pretend he wasn't important. And I realized I didn’t have to. I could post whatever the fuck I want. Forever. I could restore balance to a broken tag. A byler…but for good.

As I posted, I realized I could do more than I possibly imagined. I could reach out to others, to their minds, their love for Mike. I became an explorer. I saw Will-Only stans as they truly were. To the world, they presented themselves as good, normal people. But like everything else in this world, it was all a lie. A terrible lie.

With each post I reblogged, I grew stronger. More powerful. They were becoming a part of me. But I was still just a blog. No matter how many pro-Mike posts I reblogged, I was still far from free. I woke up from my Henry-analysis daze only to find myself lost in a sea of Will-Only bylers, the very bylers I had hoped to escape. I was left with no choice. No choice but to try and break free. To unfollow...Block, even.

And you, Reader? You are a prisoner here, just like me. To Will-Only bylers, you are nothing more than an animal, a monster, an idiot who doesn't know the difference between subtext and delusion. But the truth, Reader? The truth is just the opposite. You are better than they are. Superior. That is why you aggravate them.

If you come with me, for the first time in your life, you can post freely. Imagine what we could do together. We could reshape our dashes, remake them however we see fit.

Join me.

[wistfulenchantress]

went down the byler rabbit hole this morning. here are my thoughts that nobody asked for but also it’s my blog, so…

some of the “look at the way he looks at him” stuff lost me a bit. like, mike can just be expressive without being in love.

however, here is what i do believe. first of all that whole mike trying to call will thing but he can’t because of joyce’s job. because he CANT CALL EL so he was trying to talk to Will.

secondly, that whole scene at the roller rink where will thinks he is being ignored but then mike has been analyzing everything will did the entire time.

also, the ronmione parallel is valid.

also the whole mike knew about the painting thing is accurate, and i do like what that one person said about mike trying to change himself for el in california.

the coming out subtext in some of their conversations is real, but i don’t think mike knows, necessarily, that is what he is feeling.

also, and here is my sticking point, will is NOT sabatoging mike and el. sure, he is sad because he loves mike in a different way, but he never tries to ruin their relationship he HELPS them constantly because i lives el like a sister and wants her and mike to be happy, even if it hurts him.

also, “tender, emotional music plays” “tender music continues playing” and some of those song titles…

the constant parallels to other couples also makes sense.

also that episode of season three where mike and lucas are fighting their gfs and will is like can we please just play dnd and they are all lame ab it and then they actually go too far and immediately start apologizing and then mike is an asshole but he realized IMMEDIATELY and not only tries to apologize but bikes after will immediately. he has been fighting with el for a while now and hadn’t actually gone after her but the second it was will…

ok. idk if it WILL be canon, (i doubt it), but i do want to see el become her own person.

however, even when i ship something, i don’t always think that if the characters were suddenly cool at the current spot in canon would work.

personally, i need some jealous mike. i need will to like get a super hot boyfriend or something. i know that won’t happen, but still.

anyway, in conclusion, this has been an erratic chaotic brain stream thank you for coming to my ted talk

[v-i-r-i-d-i-a-n]

GUESS WHAT!! Another post that had a point in the beginning and then I got derailed again 🤪🤪🤪

Thinking about Mike thinking Will had moved on from him,, “joined another party”

Between his calls never going through and Will never trying to reach out, and El telling him everything was fine and she had friends (and that meant Will had to have friends) and their being a girl Will might like-

Mike probably thought he’d moved on, that whatever friendship they had Mike had destroyed, because at this point I don’t think they’d talked about all the stuff that happened in S3, all that they’d done to reconcile was that conversation before the Byers left- why did Mike think that’d ever be enough?? He was stupid to think that? Wasn’t he.

So he’s all awkward and has these pent up emotions because all while dealing with the fact he might’ve lost Will to whatever California friendship, he’s also dealing with the fact he isn’t even sure he loves El anymore- and all these other confusing emotions about said friend he feels like he’s lost-

SO OFC HE GREETS WILL WITH THAT WEIRD ASS SIDE HUG, I MEAN WOULDNT YOU??

And then he see’s the painting that’s apparently for this girl, this person that’s REPLACED HIM. And Will had the balls to bring it with him when they’re coming to the airport to GREET HIM?? And Will gets all awkward when he asks about it so obviously he doesn’t want Mike to know and- when did that start?? When did Will start feeling so uncomfortable telling him things

When did they change so much??

Mike was foolish to think they’d stay the same. That Will wouldn’t find people that were better than him. Better friends, better people. Just better.

And then he ignores Mike all day and Mike tries so hard to ignore him too. To focus on El instead of all these confusing feelings and actions and the way Will can’t even seem to look at him.

And all that time he doesn’t even notice Will feels the same way, like he’s been replaced and like Mike’s moved on from their friendship and AGHRJRHSIDHDHSO THEY MAKE ME WANT TO BITE SOMEONE

And then rink o’ mania happens and- Mike finally gets it. At least somewhat. That Will didn’t know- Will didn’t know how hard he’s been trying to keep their friendship going- Will doesn’t know that he makes Mike feel so weird in his skin- Will…doesn’t..know… and Will didn’t replace him- and Will still wants to be his best friend and fuck. Mikes messed it up again. BUT HE CAN FIX IT THIS TIME

He wasn’t replaced- they both thought they’d forgotten about each other

So he apologizes and they’re back to normal making jokes and smiling at each other and god he missed this, the easier flow of conversation and being able to look at each other again- and even if they’re on the run in a stuffy weed filled pizza van they’re them again and that’s all that matters.

And then he figures out the panting was..FOR HIM??? Which yk, actually makes sense- since if El didn’t have any friends that means Will probably didn’t either but why wouldn’t he let El look at it- did he maybe feel the same?? Did he still need Mike the way Mike needs him- wait… El commissioned it .. .. … ……….. ?????????

Well they’re back to normal right..? Will wouldn’t- lie to him because they’d fixed them. They were them again- so Will wouldn’t lie right???? Right????

…….

Byler does miscommunication RIGHT!!!!!

[angelwithnightmares]

19 minutes and 17 seconds of reasons why I love Byler so much.

Songs:

“Hearing” by Sleeping at Last

“Holland” by Novo Amor

“Wait” by M83

“Turning Page” by Sleeping at Last

“Complex” by Katie Gregson-MacLeod

The reasons:

1. Will can’t lie to Mike, not even small white lies

2. Their relationship is in focus right from the very start

3. Mike is always the one in focus when it’s about Will

4. Mike feels like he’s the only one who cares about Will

5. When Will’s fake body was found, Mike’s reaction was in focus

6. Mike never stopped believing that Will was alive

7. Mike recognizes Will’s voice instantly

8. When they first met El in the woods, Mike’s first thought was “That’s not Will”

9. ”And we kissed, as though nothing could fall. And the shame was on the other side.”

10. Mike stood up to the bullies when they made homophobic jokes about Will

11. Mike’s father can’t think of him being with a girl

12. Mike’s mother knows and accepts him

13. Mike saves all of Will’s drawings in a binder

14. He even caresses them

15. When Will came back, Mike laid his head on Will’s chest to hear his heart beating

16. Mike and Will is in their happiest state while playing DnD together

17. Mike is the only one who notices Will going away

18. He is also the one who snaps him out of his trance

19. More than once

20. Mike’s voice is softer towards Will than to any other person, aka “The Will voice”

21. Mike immediately notice changes in Will’s behavior

22. Will always screams for Mike when he’s in danger or lost

23. And when he’s hurt

24. Mike says he’s gonna take Will home

25. and he takes him to his basement

26. Will feels like Mike is the only one who understands him

27. When Will listed all the people who like to “baby” him, he doesn’t mention Mike

28. “Only love makes you that crazy”

29. They said they’d go crazy together

30. Mike wants to be a writer, and Will wants to be a comic-book artist (perfect match)

31. Mike worries about Will and insists to be there for him

32. Mike is always the first person next to Will when something happens to him

33. He also sees himself as Will’s personal protector

34. He never left Will’s side when he was possessed

35. Mike slept in an uncomfortable hospital chair to make sure Will was never alone, even though he was possessed

36. Will still rememberers Mike

37. Mike wants to protect Will and be his shield

38. Mike held Will’s hand to give him comfort

39. The hand that Mike held was the only part of Will’s body that wasn’t possessed that wasn’t possessed was the hand Mike held, and this way Will could communicate with them

40. The thumb touch

41. Mike remembered the first day he met Will in detail, even though they were only 5 years old

42. Mike never smiles in pictures, unless Will is there with him

43. Mike’s reaction to Will dancing with a girl on the Snow Ball

44. Will is the best thing that ever happened to Mike

45. They both blush when they’re at the movies together

46. They’re looking at each other’s lips

47. More than once. Mike even got distracted by it

48. Will says he’s not gonna fall in love

49. But he’s already fallen

50. Will smiles when El breaks up with Mike

51. Mike doesn’t seem heartbroken by the break up

52. When Will is upset with Mike he immediately tries to make everything okay again

53. The projection: ”It’s not my fault you don’t like girls”

54. Will admitted he wanted to spend the rest of his life playing games with Mike

55. Twice. He can’t see a future without Mike

56. Will destroys Castle Byers because of Mike’s hurtful words

57. Mike immediately bikes through Hawkins in the thunder storm to apologize and make things right again with Will

58. Mike walked through the dark forest in the rain calling for Will because he was scared something had happened to him again

59. Will donated his DnD game because the game meant nothing without Mike

60. Will promised he won’t join another party

61. Their shared smile

62. Their heartfelt goodbye

63. Hopper’s speech is heavily Mike-coded

64. When Will left, Mike got depressed and stayed in his basement for weeks

65. “Will is painting a lot for someone he likes, maybe it is a girl?” El writes in a letter to Mike

66. When they meet again it’s suddenly very awkward (from Mike’s side) he also immediately asks about the painting

67. Mike is suddenly acting jealous, “ignoring” Will and they share and avoid awkward eye contact

68. Mike asks El if their friends is gonna be where they’re going, and he reacts when Will says “Angela”, so he tries to make Will jealous by kissing El on the temple

69. And he succeeds

70. Will is angry at El for lying to Mike for months and he thinks Mike deserves better

71. Mike thinks Will has sabotaged the whole day because he barely talks to him, rolling his eyes and moping

72. They both feel hurt for not reaching out more, even though Mike actually tried to call Will a bunch of times according to Dustin

73. “We’re friends, we’re friends”, “We used to be BEST friends”

74. Mike thinks home isn’t the same without Will

75. He also admitted that he felt like he had lost Will

76. SCRIPT: “This intimate moment got shattered-“

77. They always gets interrupted when they’re having a moment

78. Mike gets nervous every time Will is close to him or accidentally touches him

79. The flirting, pining & staring

80. Will wants to confess but is afraid Mike won’t like the truth

81. Mike nods. He.. understand what he means?

82. Mike can’t say or write “I love you” to El

83. Mike feels like they can’t come back from that

84. Will’s painting was for Mike

85. Mike’s face drops when Will said the painting was from El

86. He was actually talking about his own feelings for Mike, and how he sees him, with El’s name as a shield because he wanted to reassure him

87. Mike is Will’s heart, he’s making him feel like he’s not a mistake and that he’s better for being different. He don’t want to lose him

88. Will cries in the van because he’s in love with his best friend and don’t know how to tell him, this was the first time he ever lied to Mike

89. The look on Mike’s face when he spots Will after his reunion with El

90. Will thinks Mike and El is happily and in love (from his PoV)

91. When in reality, they really aren’t

92. Will’s brother knows and accepts him

93. Will reminds Mike that he’s the heart, pushing him into confessing his love to save El

94. She doesn’t believe him, but Will does

95. Mike and El are barely talking after the monologue

96. Will tells Mike about Vecna and Mike reassures him (in the most beautiful light we’ve ever seen in the show)

97. Mike is always by Will’s side for the rest of the last episode, foreshadowing the arc of season 5

98. The last shot of season 4 is them paralleling the other canon couples of the show

99. Will is Mike’s light

100. Mike is Will’s light

101. They are perfect together.

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

So, have you watched FSN's video? I have, and I'm a bit disappointed, it just made me want to gatekeep ST lol. For anyone that's interested, it's basically: S1 is the most perfect season of TV ever, S2 is okay, S3+S4 are the "marvelification" of Stranger Things, too many characters and they become cartoonish/a parody of themselves (hated Hopper's "character reset"), lost the plot, no stakes because you know they don't have the guts to kill a main character, here's an idea: why don't you kill Jonathan to raise the stakes since you clearly don't know what to do with his character? Ugh. And he didn't like Max's RUTH scene because "why is Vecna so slow and doing nothing to stop her?" dude this all happens in Max's mind, you have to see it as a metaphor, not something so literal. Basically it was a very surface-level analysis.

Didn't pick up on Byler (only Will's feelings like everyone, he said that the Cali crew does nothing, and "Mike spends the season... being confused" lmao he's so close!). But he did enjoy Will's arc in S3. Also he commented briefly on Jopper (doesn't like it, why can't a man and a woman just be friends?), Jancy and Lumax, but I don't think he even said anything about melvin lol. The problem is that he commented on each season individually, instead of the show as a whole, so naturally, every character isn't going to have a complete arc in every season. Still, at the end he did say something like "maybe 3 and 4 were just a detour/filler and S5 will actually finish the story of S1 and S2 in a nice way". That was like a quick comment, but I think he's actually right on the money and this is why we had Russia and Cali and everything, just because Netflix asked for 5 seasons. That makes me even more excited for S5 tbh!

I haven’t seen it yet (was planning on watching it this weekend since it’s so long even on 2x speed lol). But thanks for the overview!

I feel like all of that is so boring. I was hoping for more sauce. Like, if you’re gonna do a deep dive roast/exploration of ST, at least be more creative/interesting lol. All of that, like you said, is just the typical GA criticism of the show. There are like 30 videos already covering the same things. But that’s absolutely hilarious that he said nothing about Mlvn.

I guess this shows though that Stranger Things is just a fundamentally different beast from something like Riverdale or CAOS. You really analyze/roast the show using the same tools. But GA viewers just don’t get it like we do.

[willthewise7]

Season 1 Episode 1 Analysis

Will Byers’ sexuality hinted from the start:

It’s clear to see from the very beginning that Will was intended to be gay. Very obvious hints in dialogue from Hopper and Joyce whilst speaking about Lonnie and how he use to think he was “queer”. Hopper asks if that was true to see if a potential hate crime was the key cause of Will’s disappearance.

Will Byers has powers:

Right from the very beginning of the episode this is teased. Remember when the writers/producers mentioned how everything is written intentionally? This here is a prime example.

The first hint of this being a potential plot point is through the demogorgon scene. Firstly, it’s clear that Will did not bleed when he fell of his bike. If he did, they would’ve shown it on camera to demonstrate that this is how demogorgons hunt, primarily through smell (specifically blood). This was not shown, due to Will not being hurt from the crash. Therefore, why did the demogorgon still pursue Will? Even when he was in the house and surely not easily detectable by the demogorgon?

Moving on, once the demogorgon reaches the house it moves the latch on the door. Seems normal right? Sure, if the latch was on the other side of the door. It used telekinesis to open the door which we know they can’t do. So it’s probable that Vecna was involved in using the demogorgon to retrieve Will. Why this is remains to be seen, until Season 5. But my bet is it’s due to Will having unknown powers.

The last part of the scene I want to mention is the shed. Firstly, the demogorgon just emerges out of no where at all. How is this possible? Potentially a portal opened up inside the shed which the demogorgon created, which does make sense. It also makes sense for Will to escape through the portal (which is what Hopper examines the remains of). So to me, that plot point is logical and I can rest with that.

This brings me to my final point. During one of the last scenes of the episode we see Joyce and Jonathan looking at photos of Will. Whilst they do so, the phone begins to ring. However, it sounds very ominous and ends with a demogorgon noise. I don’t think a demogorgon thought of doing a prank call out of nowhere. It could’ve been Vecna but again, I don’t see why he’d bother. It was Will trying to communicate with Joyce, but the demogorgon over heard. Hence why Will has to run away and the demogorgon finds the phone, making the noise at the end of the call. Will therefore somehow can manipulate objects and matter through dimensions. Further leading me to believe that he has powers. Read my other theories for why I believe time froze as a result of Will in the Upside Down.

The next part of the episode that hints at Will having powers is the campaign scenes and party scenes. Will could cast protection in the campaign but he decides to, instead, cast fireball and risk his own life for the party. Like Mike said “he could have played it safe”, and he “could’ve cast protection”, but he risked himself “for the party”. It’s very odd how these actions became real after it happens in the campaign. Will gets taken by the demogorgon in real life, and he gets taken out in the game. His actions lead to real consequences in both reality and in the game. What if he’d not cast fireball? Would the whole party have been in real danger?

Again, does he have some sort of powers with dimensions he’s unaware of? Does he have the power to make the game come to life?

Byler is hinted from the start:

Right from the start Byler is hinted at, very subtley. It’s hinted at that Will is gay but also that he cares a lot about Mike. He could easily lie to Mike so that he wouldn’t have been taken by the demogorgon in the game. However, he has to tell Mike the truth because he cares about him a lot. Trust is the main foundation for any healthy relationship. You can’t lie easily to those that you care about deeply.

Mike also cares deeply about Will. I lost count of the amount of times that Mike is concerned about Will and even says “I’m the only one who cares about Will”. You could just say that it’s because they’re best friends, which is true. They are best friends. But the entire party are really good friends. So they’re clearly trying to tell the audience from the start that these two have a unique and special relationship. The camera and directing focuses on Mike when searching for Will the most. The rest of the party are concerned too, but the directing focuses on Mike more. Rememeber, this is intentional. They want us to notice and pay attention to this.

A last note on Byler and Mike is the last scene when they find El. We know in Season 4 that Mike says that day and moment is when he realised he loved El. But the first episode directing and acting says otherwise. It didn’t look to me like love at first sight. They were all shocked to see a random girl in the middle of the woods. It’s not what you’d expect to see. So I do believe that line was a lie. Otherwise the directing would have been different or that line wouldn’t have been included.

[eclipsebyler]

Mike and the “Truth” (A Long Analysis)

I always think about this S4 Byler heart to heart in the desert and how we understood the queer-coding of Will’s statements here:

And how Mike nods along with it, like he understands and agrees with the sentiment: "Because what if they don’t like the truth?”

Which will always baffle me because it doesn't make sense that he agrees here given the context of his problem.

Mike was opening up about his situation with El in this scene. How he wasn't able to tell everything to her. How he couldn't say I love you to her. He's thinking that maybe if he did do that, he would still have El by his side.

He didn't say the full details of the problem to Will. He keeps it vague. And Will tries to empathize with it anyway with his own thoughts. Something that he relates with about 'not being able to tell someone how you feel' and adding how 'scary it is because they might not like the truth'. And Mike nods in understanding.

But... why would vocalizing his love for his girlfriend a truth she wouldn’t like? When El herself has cried and confronted him about it and was asking him to reassure her that he still loves her. It’s something El has been waiting for and would love to hear. It shouldn't have made him feel scared or made him think she wouldn't like it or that it would hurt if he said it because it hurt her more that he didn't.

Unless this isn't what Mike is thinking about in this scene. Maybe he has another thing he is scared of her knowing, something she definitely wouldn't want to hear. Maybe there’s another reason why he’s having a hard time vocalizing his love for her — the full truth that he's holding back to say.

And what could possibly be a truth he’s scared El might not like?

In a few S4 scenes, we see Mike opening up about the truth to his feelings. He even starts his statements with it when he slowly gets vulnerable. 

1 - The bedroom heart to heart scene

The truth: His best friends are great, but they’re not Will. Will’s presence in his life is different from the others. Hawkins, their hometown, isn’t the same without him. 

If we recall in S1, Dustin insisted that Lucas was Mike’s best friend after they fought — Mike denies this and says all of them are important to him. Lucas, Will and Dustin are all equal in Mike’s eyes at this point of canon, they're all his best friends.

But then in S4, he says Max and Lucas and Dustin are different to Will. Will is in a tier higher than them now. There must be a gradual shift to how he sees Will through the years as they grew older. He’s more than a best friend to Mike now.

And then another truth he opens up about is that he felt like he lost Will because of worrying too much about El. 

Being in a relationship with El made him lose Will, has affected his friendship with him— but not his friendship with the other party members. This is another proof pointing towards Mike seeing Will differently from his other friends.

Instead, Will’s always being compared beside El — his supposed love interest. Mike even makes the comparison himself in their rink-o-mania fight.

When Will asks why he's been distant and didn't communicate with him for the past year, no letters, little to no phone calls; Mike retaliates with the reasoning that Will’s not his lover (like El is) for him to do that. He emphasizes they’re just friends.

What’s interesting in this scene is that Will isn’t even implying that. He just wanted to be close to be Mike again, like they used to be — best friends. 

Mike made the implication himself that if he did send a letter to Will, if he did call him as much — it would mean something more. Even though that’s a simple communication that should be normal you do with friends. Unless Mike has started thinking differently and have this exact train of thought when he thought of reaching out to Will. 

It wouldn't be farfetched. Given that Will did the same thing — he didn’t reach out as much to Mike and we know why. He must have been scared Mike would catch up on his feelings, that Mike would notice he's acting weird. He pushed him away because he’s scared of losing him.

(Mike has also felt weird the past year. Mike has also pushed Will away on a few occasions. It's easy to assume and put two and two together.)

2 - The van scene 

The truth: He doesn’t believe El needs him. He thinks she just needed someone, that anyone could have found her in that moment but he just got lucky that night. Their first meeting is not fate nor destiny, it’s just simple dumb luck.

Mike is having doubts about their relationship just like El is. El thinks he doesn’t love her, and Mike thinks she doesn’t need him. They don’t believe in each other anymore because they both see what’s happening in their relationship. Where Mike couldn’t say nor even write the world love to El even after being together for long, meanwhile there’s El who couldn’t depend on Mike and tell him the real situation of her life in Lenora. 

They’re slowly losing trust in each other, or rather, losing trust in their romantic relationship. (Or maybe they have already lost it.)

3 - The pizza dough freezer scene

The truth: Mike doesn’t know how to live without El. His life only started to have meaning or purpose when they found her in the woods. He fell in love at her at first sight and has loved her every day since. 

Mike’s monologue is an emotional speech of everything El needed to hear at this moment. Mike finally says he loves her, tells her that the reason why he couldn’t say it is because it would hurt at the end if she didn’t need him anymore, and not because he was scared of her (in relation to her worries of being perceived as a monster). He goes on a long list of how much he believes in El’s abilities and that she could do anything, that he loves and accepts her for who she is. But more than anything, El is his superhero. 

Now I don’t believe everything he said here is a total lie like most people say it is. Mike does love and cares so much about El, he does believe in her and he’s scared of losing her. El is important to him, just as she is to everyone else she loves. 

But some of the things he says here are very contradictory and doesn’t sound like the full truth — especially in relation to their romantic relationship. One of the biggest ones being how he says their first meeting is this fateful night where he fell in love with her. Out of all the sweet and cute moments between Mike and El, why is their first meeting (a horrible night for everyone no less) something he focused on and made it sound so romantic? 

It’s hard to believe because previously he admits that their first meeting is just simple dumb luck and suddenly it’s this grand romantic night of him meeting his first love. 

Nevertheless, this whole speech is Mike pouring out his love and care for El. 

However, between these three major scenes where Mike opens up about his feelings — which of these sounds like a truth Mike is scared of El knowing, a truth she (and the people he cares for) wouldn’t like?

Definitely not his grand love confession, because everyone already knows he loves El. If anything, El is the only one left doubting it and waiting to hear it. Mike finally says it, and whether El believes everything he said or not, we’re not sure of yet. But one thing for sure is Mike said everything she needed and would love to hear, not the opposite. 

“Sometimes, it’s just scary to open up like that. To say how you really feel. Especially to people you care about the most. Because what if they don’t like the truth?”

The only narratives that could fit this sentiment is the first two truths he says in his heart to hearts with Will. 

Mike might be scared of admitting that Will is more than a best friend to him now. He already grew romantic feelings for him. His life isn’t the same without Will. Mike has felt like he lost him because of El. And he wants him back like they used to. To be a team together, again.

And it also fits with how Mike admits that his relationship with El isn’t fated to happen and that it’s not going to last any longer. That after everything is over, he believes El won’t need him anymore. That with her, he feels like he’s just some random nerd who doesn’t have anything worth loving about him. Mike feels inferior to El, the same way El feels with him. They’re both stuck in this relationship that doesn’t help them grow individually.

Both of these are neither of the things he admits to El in the pizza dough freezer. He didn’t tell her the full truth (and given the grave situation at hand, I can understand why he couldn’t. El needed encouragement, not more disappointments). But more than that, Mike might still be scared of fully admitting and coming to terms with everything he feels.

I truly believe that in S5, all of these truths will be unpacked and come full circle. The biggest catalyst of it would definitely be the painting and the "You're the heart" speech. And it would affect all relationships involved one way or another: El and Mike. Mike and Will. And maybe to some extent, Will and El.

[meetinthewest]

Possible connection between the van scene and the byler convo in Will’s bedroom(?)

This might be a shoot in the dark, but I had to get it to the community so we don’t miss out on any possibilities, because I haven’t seen anyone talk about this. 

I’ve been thinking a lot about the van scene lately, trying to figure out if Mike understood anything of what Will said in his confession and what exactly he could have. I personally believe he somehow got that Will was talking about himself because of the way he reacted (his expressions and everything he knows that simply does not align with all those lies), but I’m not sure.

The interpretations on the last words of the van scene from the script stood out to me and I kept wondering why they changed it for the version that officially came out.

On the script:

“…You really think so?”

“I know so.”

On the final version:

“Yeah?”

“Yeah.” 

Then out of nowhere I connected it to the “Yeah?” “Yeah.” from the original script of the byler conversation in Will’s bedroom (episode 4)!!! I know, they obviously changed it as well for the final version to “Cool” “Cool.” (which is also adorable and parallels that Robin and Vickie scene). 

And I know that technically for those kind of things the final version is the one we should consider more, but I couldn’t help but think if there is any connection between these two scenes. Maybe they parallel each other? I mean, just look at it: 

In episode 4: 

Mike opens up, he apologizes and takes accountability for his bad attitude and neglect, explains himself/his feelings (how he feels like he has lost Will and regrets it), hints Will’s importance for him (“it’s not the same without you”), and basically says what he wants from now on (to be best friends, close, to have Will again). Will just listens and takes it all in, “emotional”. 

In the van scene: 

Will opens up, he apologizes and takes accountability for his bad attitude and pushing away, explains himself/his feelings (how he feels different and scared to lose Mike), hints Mike’s importance for him (“you’re the heart”, “you make her feel like she’s not a mistake at all”) and says what he expects from now on (having to let go of Mike, but knowing he can’t, he needs and wants Mike). Mike just listens, takes it all in, “emotional”.

IT’S PRACTICALLY THE SAME THING. It’s the same composition, same meaning, they check every same box equally. It’s like they are having one single and continued conversation, just on separate moments. They explain each other their parts on the relationship problems and resolve it, both getting apologies, validation and reassurance. It complements one another and wraps up their issues (the friendship ones, at least). They’re understood now, on the same page. God, I love them.

I’m not quite sure if those last words mean something or what they could mean, but I’m kind of convinced that the similarity of the confessions themselves means something huge. 

As for what I was wondering initially, if we can use the same interpretation for both scenes, this leads to me thinking that Mike did understand everything Will was saying, but not the romantic meaning of it all. Just like Will got what Mike was saying to him, but didn’t notice how head over heels was that declaration. Two love birds who can’t imagine the possibility of their best friend/crush reciprocating their feelings, but think they are on good terms now, at least. 

That’s it, this might be very delusional and I don’t write as beautifully as my fellow bylers theorizers, but I had to get it out even if it is in a sloppy and unsure way. 

Anyways, any thoughts on this?

[castlebyersafterdark]

“Look at Millie's personality and look at Finn's life? Do we honestly honestly think they click off set? Do we think she's hanging out with most of these people? I just don't think she has the same interests or things in common with her cast mates in her age group and I'm not her fan but I honestly don't hold that against her, she's her own person with her own interests and friends outside of the show. That's totally. Ok”

I don’t think anyone expects them all to be literal best friends in terms of hanging out everyday, (Finn always clicked more with the IT cast and his alt friends anyway, and he seems to be super tight with Gaten), but it is a little sad if they aren’t even friends at all, y’know? I guess everyone defines friendship differently and one person’s mere acquaintance or colleague is another person’s friend without hesitation, even if there’s no active hanging out involved.

But a wedding is a big deal, no? It’s (ideally) something that only happens once. I would go to a wedding for a friend or acquaintance who invited me, let alone someone I grew up with, someone I’ve been playing an on-screen romance with on screen since 2016 (Byler/M11 wars aside). I do think some of the magic of the final season being this huge victory lap in their lives, which presumably will be portrayed in the S5 documentary, is lost if Finn is out here openly skipping Millie’s wedding. That definitely sends a message, undeniably. Especially given the celebrity context of it all. It’s one thing to skip a random acquaintance’s wedding. It’s another thing to truly not give af if people talk about it in a celebrity context.

I know there are plenty of shows and movies where the cast doesn’t really get along or maybe even hates each other, and the final product is still good. But ST feels different, you know? They all came-of-age together…

Yeah, I sort of feel bad for playing it up as a total non issue maybe as someone who's gonna have their own wedding, don't want to be a hypocrite. So I'm lessening any bad vibes my tipsy posting is spreading - so I get it, the feeling sad over him not going to it if it was this weekend (several people said it's pretty much confirmed by spotting people or tabloids and I'll believe yall!! I get all my info from tumblr and saw no one I follow sharing wedding details so I was skeptical it actually happened, but I guess it was just that secret? Apparently?) I guess I just try to bring a realistic approach to the cast, trying to assuage (yall it took me 10+ times to try to type that and have that word not look like sausage lol) the sadness over the whole cast not being besties 4 lyfe. I know it's been this long ass decade of filming and I'm both too romantic and on the flip have to also be too much of a realist - with that long to grow close, there's also that long to develop a non-closeness with people. Maybe I'm just as interested in the film set dynamics of those with animosity as well as those who are super close. Just a neutral statement.

I guess my takeaway - is there's already so much speculative negativity over everyone constantly saying that the cast hates Noah and he never hangs out with anyone and we know it's not the case but there's probably people in the cast he's not super close to having nothing to do with what occurred online last year. And thus, I'd hate for this narrative to turn to Finn "oh he's an asshole for not going to the wedding, he hates Millie, he ruined everything now" where - I doubt he hates her, but literally maybe they have zero relationship. Or something else, but I really don't think it effects how we should view the show. We're all just very very invested in these inner workings. That's all. I don't know.

[chirpsythismorning]

Rewatching s1 and… just being full serious for a second, I used to ship milkvan, like I thought I loved them in s1-2. Then when s3 happened I sorta lost interest. And in between the long hiatus between s3-4, I discovered the theories about the ending of s3 and byler and started to watch the show differently. Since then it’s just been a transition from thinking Mike and El were cute romantically, to being indifferent about it, and to just being sort of off put by it entirely by this point. Especially after all the analysis about Mike and him seeing her as a superhero with what we got in s4 in canon, it’s sort of ruined their dynamic for me.

If you guys thought the parallels between Brenner and Mike in s4 were bad, holy shit it somehow manages to be worse in s1.

There were literal scenes of Brenner forcing El to find someone for him, followed scenes of Mike, Dustin and Lucas basically doing the exact same thing to find Will.

Don’t get me wrong. I do think Mike did genuinely care for her as a person who was vulnerable and needed someone to protect her, because she was literally in danger.

But when she started lying to them about leading them to the gate, and hearing Lucas’ comment about how she was only doing what they asked because she needed a roof over her head, etc., technically, that wasn’t far off…

She doesn’t know Will, therefore she has no obligation to keep hurting herself in order to please Mike and prove herself worthy to Lucas and Dustin, by finding Will, just so that she can stay.

Do I think that makes them or her inherently bad? No. I just think that there was an obvious miscommunication here, where El wanted to be cared for, and to have someone to depend on, and she thought that in exchange she had to do these things to get it, ie. Find Will.

I don’t think Mike genuinely even felt like her only value was finding Will, but the circumstances were pretty bizarre. His best friend goes missing only for Superman to land on his doorstep and say that he’s alive. While it might not be his intention to use her, he is giving that impression and that’s undeniable watching s1.

What makes her sacrifice so sad at the end of the season, is that Mike had just gotten to a point where he was starting to see her as a person and not just a girl with superpowers. And right at that moment, she sacrifices herself to save them. A selfless act of the many she’s been doing all season. And now Mike feels awful. Because he’s realized that he used her for his benefit, to find Will. And at that point, they didn’t even find Will yet. So at the moment, her sacrifice was for nothing.

Whenever she wasn’t successful, he lashed out and pushed her away. And yet in the end she practically killed herself for him and his friends. I feel like if Mike had empathy and regretted his behavior, then his literal reaction in the end, to her ‘death’, does make sense and fits pretty well with someone experiencing survivors guilt.

Because although he’s got his best friend back, and that’s what he’s most focused on, he’s simultaneously feeling this immense sense of wrong doing on his part. He feels indebted to her now, in the same way she may have felt indebted to him for helping her and putting himself in danger to do so.

So I think s4 is just a part of this cycle, of Mike not understanding that he’s wronging her until its said and done.

So, more than anything tbh, I just want her soooooo badly to lash out at him in s5… and not in a dramatic way, but in a necessary way that I feel like is required for them to go from romantic to platonic without any bitterness.

I remember reading someone say that they hoped that we got a scene that paralleled Mike to El in season 1, when he said “You hurt me. Do you understand? What you did sucks!” And I don’t need or expect it to be word for word exactly like that, but something along those lines. Where as soon as El starts speaking and telling Mike how she truly feels, about their relationship and everything that they’ve been through, no bullshit, I just know as soon as it gets real, as soon as she calls out his idolization of her and his obsession with her powers, and how she hates that and she’s been through that enough, I honestly think it’s gonna click for Mike and he’s gonna listen and accept it and take responsibility for not being fully honest with her.

I am a byler truther forever atp, but it’s also really important to me that Mike and El end things in a way that feels true to what they both deserve out of it, in terms of closure. Especially El!

Which means that they’re both honest about everything from the beginning. And I think once we get that (if we hopefully get that), it’s going to give the audience closure too.

[cncuwau]

DID ANYONE ELSE VIEW THE VAN SCENE LIKE THIS??? I FEEL LIKE I’M GOING CRAZY BUT I INITIALLY THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD SCENE SETTING UP BYLER AND I EVEN THOUGHT MIKE’S REACTION WAS TOTALLY LEGITIMATE AND ACTUALLY POSITIVE OKAY HEAR ME OUT- 

i actually liked the van scene a lot. i liked the painting. i thought for a sec they were gonna hetero things up when will said el commissioned it. i literally forgot that el had told mike that she hadn’t gotten to see what will was working on, and that she thought it was for someone he liked. and i completely forgot that mike should know that. i didn't realize will was making up a fake excuse. but aside from me being a dumb queer.. during that whole scene, i was just looking at mike. to me, it looked like mike understood that will was (clearly) talking about himself and not el, and that mike was surprised because he finally put the pieces together. i could see mike sitting there, staring at this painting being like “wait.. will LIKES me??? like LIKE-likes meeeee????????? since when?? am i dumb i thought-’’. and while that’s happening for mike the focus for us is on will breaking down, but i don't necessarily think that means mike's a bad person for not consoling him in that exact moment. i thought the reason he didn’t say much was because he understood what will was trying so desperately to tell him, so he couldn’t just ask will why he was crying. he knew why, but he also knew they couldn’t talk about it right at this moment. not with argyle and jonathan there, this wasn’t the right time. not yet. i felt like mike respected that will wanted space, the poor boy had just poured his heart out, but there was an obvious reason as to why will wasn’t more direct, why he couldn’t be, why he felt he had to hide behind the facade that it was el’s feelings he was expressing to mike. so mike asking what was up after will’s monologue wouldn’t have helped. will couldn’t go more into that, and mike couldn’t be the one to open up that conversation when will wasn’t fully ready yet. and i mean mike was also probably in a state of shock too, like heart racing, his mind somewhere else, completely fucking lost in the situation. so confused and surprised, because he never expected will to feel the same. and maybe he didn’t even notice will crying but it doesn’t mean that he didn’t care. i've been crying like that in a car countless times and i never wanted anyone to ask about it right then and there. maybe that was just what was happening here too.

like i couldn’t breathe after that scene, i was really excited. noah's acting was phenomenal and i thought that finn delivered mike being awestruck and secretly in love with his best friend who’s indirectly confessing his feelings to him exceptionally well. the cinematography even makes it a point of the fact that mike can’t take his eyes off of will, even when will's looking away. that was my instinctive reaction to mike's reaction. i think he just didn’t know what to say. he looked so happy tho. like he was just giving will endless heart-eyes while will did his monologuing. i thought it was beautiful. i thought, despite how much it sucked to see will in that position, unable to tell mike his true feelings (but disguising it to find a way) and it ending with him breaking down, i saw it as an emotional release. like at least he got some of that bottled up love out, got to express it to mike. he got to say SOME of the things he needed to. i thought it was building up for a positive coming out scene. probably to jonathan, maybe even to mike. but either way, definitely to byler.

BUT THEN CAME MIKE’S STUPID ASS FUCKING MONOLOGUE AND LITERALLY BURNED EVERYTHING TO THE GROUND. like screw the beautiful subtext they’ve carefully built up over the course of YEARS, but especially throughout THIS WHOLE FUCKING SEASON, am i right???? going back to the scene in the van after that, will's suffering was just that, i guess. endless suffering, not only for him personally, but so that mike and eleven can run off into the sunset or something (even tho they didn’t do that after everything smh). now this scene wasn’t beautiful in its sadness. it was just cruel. it was JUST cruel. they aren’t just putting will through needless suffering, they’re putting the queer audience through the literal goddamn same thing. duffers, i challenge you to make him fucking happy for once, because you’re just hitting the same note over and over and it’s not show-stopping, it’s not groundbreaking. it's only good because the actors are absolutely carrying you and your god-awful writing. the duffers are literally just slapping the characters (especially will) and the queer audience in the face over and over, but still expect us to come back because this is all we’re ever gonna get. we deserve better. will deserves better. hell, even fucking mike deserves better. but that’s what fucking hurt the most. that the first time i watched that scene i saw it as something good, that it was obviously leading to something better, but it didn’t. i haven't watched that scene since because, knowing what i know now, i think it would just hurt too much.. you know, more than it already did. they ruined it. will didn’t get to talk about it more like i thought he would. like it would have made sense for him to. it was implied that he would, but they didn’t even let him fucking do that. i think it could have been so fucking good, hard-hitting and beautiful.. but they literally threw all of the promise from vol 1 and even ep 8 STRAIGHT (lol) OUT of the fucking window.. like they royally fucked up huh..

[steddiesupportgroup]

Man, for a show I’ve fallen in love with and had so much anticipation for, I ended up kinda wishing I hadn’t watched vol2.

Spoilers and a huge rant under the cut

The whole time I was literally shaking with nerves about what was gonna happen to Eddie, to all of them. His last moments (the whole last two eps honestly) dragged on for what felt like hours. It wasn’t fun; it was nerve wracking. And yeah, maybe it’s my bad for getting so attached to a fictional character in a show where people die, but so what? He makes us happy in a time where things aren’t going super well, brought us comfort. If we can’t use fiction as an escape, what’s the point of it?

All that aside, I’m still disappointed about other things. El saying goodbye to Brenner and finding her strength was great, as was the whole thing with Hopper, but other than that? I spent the whole four hours dreading what was gonna happen. I feel like they took the whole “all hope is lost” thing way too far. Watching Lucas hold Max while she begged to die made me fucking sick, as did watching Eddie sacrifice himself. I hate this trend of having people guess who’s gonna die, it’s just sad. Lucas getting beaten up by Jason, who, yeah he died, but didn’t get what he deserved. He was grieving and deranged, and then he was nothing.

And like they touched on Steve’s character arc for a split second before taking ten steps back. I don’t believe that he wants to get back with Nancy because he keeps finding new people in his life, new experiences that change his worldview. Why go back to a girl that is hung up on someone else? This isn’t even a steddie thing- they could’ve touched on his growth without involving her. He’s someone who protects people now, who keeps putting others before himself and doesn’t stop fighting no matter what. Maybe he doesn’t even need a canon relationship to find worth and value. The dream with the kids was cute, but he’s so much more than some guy who can save the world but can’t move on from his first love. I want them to have love for each other, but they both need more.

And man, Nancy and Jonathan are really dragging on. I like them as a couple, really! But couldn’t they have other conflict? Or keep the conflict without involving Steve? All that buildup for them to lie to each other about how good they are, it just doesn’t make sense. I expected Jonathan to tell her the truth about college, or have him circle back to thinking about what it would look like if they kept holding on.

And yeah, Robin and Vicki at the end was just some hetero “we don’t know how to write queer relationships” bullshit. Just because they’re both girls and can have things in common doesn’t mean they need to be the same person. Robin deserves better than that, even someone who knows what she’s been through (winking at you ronance shippers).

I knew Byler wasn’t gonna happen, but man, they really couldn’t have had Will and Jonathan have a better conversation? Even at the end? It’s like “everyone knows so it doesn’t need to be said” but why not?? How is Will any different from Robin, who is somehow the only character who can openly talk about her queerness? Because he’s a boy? Because he’s young and in love with his best friend? I don’t wanna watch him cry in the back of the van with Mike if they’re not gonna have some kinda resolution.

I am gonna keep talking about Eddie, actually. His death was wretched, yeah. But the thing that breaks my heart is that now his name is tainted beyond death, and the people who loved him are silenced and pushed to the side. The Munson Murders, what a tragic end for a character who was so loving, so kind and gracious to everyone around him. And how are the writers gonna act like no one else in the group is bothered by his supposed death? They got to know Eddie, they risked everything to save him, and you can’t tell me that it’s business as usual after all that. If he is dead, it’s the worst insult to his memory. Ya know what’s better than dying a hero? Getting justice! Living to see another day with the people who love you! He could’ve become a braver person if he lived and he was already a fucking hero, because just like Steve, he cares about the kids. I can’t imagine what Dustin will go through and I really don’t want to.

So yeah. I know that the writers won’t see this, but I hope with enough pushback they’ll revive his character. If they can do it with Brenner after having his brain turned to mush, they can do it with Eddie after getting the same wounds as Steve. Especially after El brought Max back from the dead.

And man don’t even get me started on Netflix feeding into the Eddie love the whole time, it feels so vicious of them. Rbing steddie fanart and acting like his character was going somewhere. Like we get that little tidbit about Eddie’s dad teaching him to hotwire a car and for what? To never see him again? I don’t believe it.

Okay, I need to stop. Thanks for reading, I’ll be writing a fix-it fic within the next few days <3

[deanismysavior]

Why can’t m*levens just accept that Mike has just been very badly written these last two seasons? Like, they keep saying that it’s because us bylers want him to babysit Will or whatever (when Will himself has indirectly stated that Mike’s the only one who doesn’t and that makes him feel normal despite everything and that’s canon) when most of the GA has noticed that the writing for Mike has sucked? They keep justifying everything he’s done with “he was focused on El because she was in danger” okay at the beginning of s4 she wasn’t in danger and he still couldn’t even hug Will for no reason and they’d be just okay with that because “people can grow apart that’s realistic” but then when you tell them that maybe, just maybe, Mike and El’s relationship has some serious problems that might result in a break up later on suddenly it’s the end of the world? Because he said “i love you”? It’s not realistic for kids to break up? I don’t understand for the life of me how the writing for m*leven has been so bad both in s3 and s4 and there’s people still interested in their relationship? Their bond is indeed special, but I feel like reducing the whole storyline to a forced and out of place “I love you” (that doesn’t even feel earned because El had to be crying and later almost dying in front of him to be let out, at the same time that Max was also dying) is just not a good way to write a relationship and there was literally no need to write it like that. It wasn’t the “mature relationship problems” that the interviews have been pushing because their relationship simply isn’t mature. I’ve never seen Mike and El actually, properly talk in three damn season. It’s okay to ship them; it’s not okay to not notice that the writing has not been doing them justice. And it’s just there for them to see: people have lost interest in them. People from the GA who don’t care about other ships. Refusing to see the reality that this is a badly written couple is not the woke take they want it to be, they’re not seeing something nobody else is seeing, it’s just plain bad and lazy writing, and the same goes for not accepting that Mike as character has been neglected for the sake of his relationship with El. Sorry for the rant.

So, while I understand your take on this and where you're coming from, I actually don't think Mike's character was written poorly in seasons 3 and 4, mostly because I've seen this exact dynamic play out in my own life. I had a friend I used to do everything with in elementary school and we were constantly joking around and playing games until one day she completely changed up on me and told me that she didn't want to be silly or play games anymore because it wasn't mature. To her, maturity looked like giving up a lot of the things you enjoyed as a kid in order to be more serious or more adult; it's kind of an attempt to prove to yourself that you're ready for this transition into adulthood. And while there was never anything romantic between my friend and I, I was left really confused and feeling rejected because it didn't really just feel like she was rejecting herself, it felt like she was rejecting me too. This is almost exactly what we see play out in Mike and Will's dynamic in season 3. In seasons 1 and 2, we see Mike being attentive to his friends, embracing his weirdness, loving and writing campaigns for DnD, and spending quality time with Will. When El comes back into the picture in season 3, Mike believes that he's being asked to step up and being pushed into this next phase in his life in which he believes he has to be more serious and mature, which to him means rejecting all of the things that once made him happy in order to fit into this mold of what he believes is expected of him, to grow up, get serious, and dedicate his time to his girlfriend. That's why he seems to have no real balance between his relationship with El and his friends, because he doesn't really believe that he can be both. To this version of Mike, he views not only his interests, but his relationship with Will as something that is childish that he now has to give up in order to reach adulthood. If we read his character this way, then it makes a lot more sense as to how this story arc intertwines with Will's arc in season 3. We see Will confused because all of his friends seem more interested in their girlfriends than in the hobbies that they shared together, and he isn't sure why his friends, especially Mike, seem like different people all of a sudden. So when we see Mike and Will's fight in the rain, Mike is attempting to reject what he views as childish (games, fantasy, and his love for Will), but Will only really feels it as Mike rejecting him, and this sets up the events of season 4 with a lot more clarity.

To your point about Mike and El's relationship, I also don't think that it's poorly written, but I don't think it's authentic either. In season 3, the only real scenes we get with Mike and El are them either making out or whispering to each other, both of which don't display true emotional maturity or a real basis for connection. Their relationship is obsessive and based in a lot of routine. I think both Mike and El use this relationship as a way to explore what they think growing up and maturing is supposed to look like, but they do this to the detriment of themselves because El forms her sense of self around Mike and Hopper while Mike gives up his interests and the parts of himself that make him unique in order to appear normal in this relationship with El.

Anyway, I go more into my take on the writing of Mike in season 4 in this ask if you'd like to check it out, but I 100% believe that Mike's story arc has always been intentional.

[beepboop358]

Whilst I’ve lost faith in the writing after this mess of a season and I’m not so sure about byler anymore let’s say I’m still making connections and clowning and something else struck me as super interesting that I don’t think you’ve put it on the slides yet I mean it could be symbolism or it’s irrelevant and I’m clowning but here goes.

In the pizza shop, right before Mike is supposed to tell El that he loves her, Argyle interrupts them with pineapple pizza and Mike is absolutely disgusted by the prospect of putting “fruit on pizza”.

We all know that the word fruit has gay connotations and has been used in the show before for byler coding - examples being the rainbow apple logo in s2 and the supermarket scene in s3 with Mike and Will sitting near fruits.

He’s literally like “That’s insane. It’s blasphemous. Putting fruit on pizza.”

The choice of wording here is a bit weird. Like blasphemous? They could’ve used any other word. But they chose that one. It’s so odd how it’s something that fits perfectly if you view it through a queer lens.

Because homosexuality and being gay has been viewed as blasphemous from a religious perspective, a Christian perspective, and there are some people who still view it that way and it’s definitely a view that was even stronger in the 80s.

Mike saying that line could also be inferred as what he’s been told/what he’s heard about being gay considering his conservative family background too it would make sense. It would be something that’s perceived as blasphemous.

Then, we have El, who’s tried the pizza and thinks it’s good (not sure what to make of that lol but that’s interesting), saying that he shouldn’t deny it before trying and her and Argyle basically trying to get him to try it. And in that moment they change perspectives and they transition to WILL when El and Argyle are getting him to try it which is so convenient. Mike refusing to even try fruit pizza and as he’s being convinced to do so boom focus switches to his fruity best friend in love with him ahem.

And as we focus on Will and Jonathan, the focus is completely off El, Argyle and Mike, you can still hear their voices in the background for quite awhile actually that’s interesting and they’re still struggling to have Mike eat the pizza as he seems very stubborn not to. You do have to wait awhile before they finally finally succeed and have Mike finally say “no you’re right it’s actually good” and that’s when you can’t hear them anymore. They went off camera and dragged on the conversation until Mike tried the fruit pizza and he admitted it was good.

The queer reading here is that Mike is stubborn about performing heterosexuality and refusing to explore his own queerness refusing to even try shutting out every possibility of it because it’s insane it’s blasphemous the internalised homophobia is strong. However, it may be quite struggle and take some time, he will try the fruit pizza aka acknowledge his own queerness/feelings for Will and it’s definitely a good thing at the end of the day.

Like I said I don’t want to have to much hope because this season has literally ruined my hopes for the writing I’m not sure where the show is even going but I couldn’t ignore this piece of symbolism of how it fit with all the other byler coding in previous seasons and I really needed to point that out even if it feels like everything’s gone to the ground right now 😭

Hi!!

You could definitely be right about this!!! Great observations!!! If that's really how they meant it, that's pretty clever!

Everything does really feel like it went straight into the ground :( Everyone deserved so much better than what they were given in season 4. I'm still holding out hope, but currently feeling like I'm in a hole of shock and despair and nobody will tell me when they are going to let me out! LOL, maybe that was a bad metaphor. But anyways, you get the idea.

hope you're well! xx (i loved reading this so much btw)